Anyone remember the Jeff Garcia " Moonball"?

Well, look at the line he played behind. His TE was who, again? And, how about his RB?
He had Roy, and Furrey, and not a great defense, either.
It was Jon, Roy, Mike, and pretty much nobody else.

I’m not sure where you were going with this. Jon played with a great team around him, both offensively and defensively. He was on a roster hand picked by Matt Millen, with a hand picked coaching staff…so you KNOW they were good!

Yeah, that’s the ticket.

It appears to me, too, that the offense scored more points in 2007 than the offense did in: 2009, 2010, 2104 and 2018. And tied 2016.

The defense was absolute garbage (gave up 444 in 2007). You’re likely forced to take more risky throws when you’re behind and running out of clock. (explaining the INTs)

But of course Kitna gets no excuses. None. They’re reserved for those QBs that are drafted in the top 5. Like Joey Harrington got the whole time he was here…

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Sounds to me like it’s less of a QB thing, less of an oline thing, and more of a Lions thing.

YES, exactly.

The QB is a factor, but not even close to as much of one as people make it out to be. He’s bigger than any individual factor, but as part of the big picture? Not so much.

Was Mark Sanchez a better QB than Stafford? Probably not. But he did win 4 road playoff games in his first 2 years in the league.

I’d rather build a team than put it all on the QB.

The Patriots are great, but it’s not Brady that makes them great. It’s their team. Top 10 defense and top 10 offense almost every year. At least one every year. When their defense falls out of the top 10, it doesn’t matter how good their offense is, they lose. (see 2011 Lions)

This is hilarious (and true.)

Ehhhhhh, It’s also a lot easier to put together a team when you have, and it pains me to say it as a Pats hater, the GOAT at QB.

Trying to dissect the Pats without Brady or Brady without the Pats is a fool’s errand. They’ve dominated the NFL for 20 years in ways that just can’t be replicated.

I’m not saying he’s not a factor. Ice in his blood for sure. Eye of the Tiger, shoot, eyes of 10 tigers. And him taking less than market value is a huge advantage.

But then playing in that weak division like the 49ers had in the West when they were a big deal. It’s pretty much a free ride to the playoffs every year.

They’ve had some pretty good coaching, too. Pete Carroll got them to the SB with Bledsoe a few years before Brady got there…

2003 they scored a measly 348* points in the regular season, but that defense only allowed 238. Jeeze Tabor that’s good. Super bowl.

348 points is only 2 more points than we scored in 2007. It’s not all Brady.

No, it isn’t all Brady. But, you can’t win with Trent Dilfer and a great defense year after year after year after year. Without that bedrock to your offense, you need to keep 11+ guys in house, happy and hungry.

With a great QB, you have a lot more wiggle room.

2016 Pats. Super Bowl. They start out 3-1 with Brady serving suspension for that bogus witch hunt.

2008, they went 11-5 with Cassel. Brady played 1 game. Put up 410 points, too.

That bedrock is the O-Line and Belichick.

Brady taking less than market value is also pretty huge. Unlike our greedy c-nt of a QB who is taking 15.7% of the cap this year and even more next year. And we’re not getting GOAT play out of him…

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The easiest way to see that Belichick can win a Super Bowl without Brady is the fact that he won a Super Bowl with Brady…before Brady was Brady. Brady went into the final drive of a frickin Super Bowl with only 90 yards passing for the entire game…and won the game.



Best way to win a Super Bowl without Brady, is to win it with Brady

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Bill Parcells was the coach that led the patriots to the Superbowl in the 96 season. Pete Carroll came after that.:wink:


Oh Butternuts.

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Remember it vividly. Was at that game.

Lions got embarrassed by Michael Vick and the Falcons on Thanksgiving.

With about 10 minutes left in the game, the stadium was eerily quiet. There may have been about 10,000 fans left. At the 2 minute warning, about 1000 fans left.

The Fords were so embarrassed, Mooch got fired and Dick Jauron took over as interim head coach. Later that season, we had the Samkon Gado screw job game.