Average margin of victory vs average margin of loss

I’m trying to wrap my head around why I feel like season or team is worse than their record.

While the team is almost .500 and perhaps on the verge of filling ownership mandate they play meaningful competitive games in December …

The wins are so close , the loses have been less so

This team is dependent on Stafford playing flawlessly to be competitive. If he makes any mistakes they can’t compete. The burden he is under does not allow him to play prudently and punt as opposed to forcing the ball. He plays as a QB should taking the risk when it is needed for a possible victory as opposed to worrying about his QB rating as others do.

This team needs to get better on defense so that he can take less risk until the game forces you to. If the defense can get better at stopping the run and getting to the QB, we can compete.


I think Golladay is pretty important and when he’s in Stafford can be less than perfect at least in balls thrown to him.

I know you’re a big Stafford fan. I like him too but he’s been one consistent through this - he backed JBC who many felt was way over matched. That’s a big decision for franchise.

I think Golladay is really important as well .
I disagree with the less than perfect ball thrown to him though, near every ball thrown to him has to be in a perfect spot (Tight Window) …the perfect pass to Golladay is often not one you can deliver facemask high inside his shoulders because a Defender is often in a position to swat those away because of the lack of separation he gets.

I’m a huge Stafford fan as well …I think the choice is an easy one if he wants to be here …you sign him again and let him be the Elite QB he is . The one consistent here is that he has been the best player on this roster for his entire career …never a problem or a reason for non success…he is now and always has been a part of the solution …He has plenty of years left in him . No reason not to keep him here …unless he wants to go .


We seen how Aaron Rodgers took to having a qb drafted behind him … actually I don’t know if he said much about kizer at the time but…

Like I said , I can’t rule out where Mstt fits in with issues. We heard he had lots of control to audible etc at the line yet blamed JBC when calls don’t work
But I’ve never seen any fan dive into how to track what choices Staff makes pre snap vs whst he could’ve chosen …

He’s got a very unique career for a player held in such high esteem by lions fans ( a thing imo Thst makes him very powerful within context of lions ) as the only hope for a super bowl

While ignoring Seattle totally blew the Aaron curry pick yet still went on to dominate due to … the higher ups who came on board.

Usually the great QBs end up linked to the great coach or gm making Stafford career comparable to …
Archie Manning ?

Also Staff resisted working with a QB guru early on ., did his early career approach help sink Schwartz or was Thst on Schwartz ?

We’ll likely never know since Lions MO is to keep their “star” until he quits rather than letting him play elsewhere so as sill likely only see Stafford as a Lion

Unless somehow the Lions luck into the next star they can hang their ticket sales on … making Staffiord expendable.

That’ll take fan base turning on him
But Lions fans are well rehearsed on That too.

Why does or would anybody "have to " turn on him… him being Stafford …“IF” his heir apparent gets drafted here?

First, that QB has to do noticeably better than Stafford has AND still show absolute durability & toughness to play through injures as well…like Stafford does or did. The new QB has to surpass anything Matt Stafford accomplished to prove he IS “better” than Stafford ever was…before anyone “turns” against JMS.

The day we land a solid beast QB, and he gets a season or two under his belt, that is when "A great/heated debate will begin–weather new QB X is better than Matthew Stafford. This will go on for a few years i imagine , so buckle up this next offseason !

This is what I mean …

For Stafford’s careers majority Lions fans , especially the season ticket holders , see Stafford as the lions best hope to a SB. Fans say how long it’s been snd how impossible it’ll be to replace him sending org into further tailspin … so in marketing the team , like they lions have done in the past , Stafford is the hope for a super bowl

While people ignore other instances like how many goos QBs have come into
The league since Stafford , how many good teams have been built with “lesser QBs etc “

So when fans turn their back on Stafford as he plays poorly due to touching out some injury we never knew about … if tide turns and fans turn on him … the lions will sell us the next great hope.

I’d love to see Lions successful with Stafford
Just of the opinion if the GM HC is any good it doesn’t have to rely on Stafford.

Bill Walsh dropped a productive Montana when Young was still just potential …

Billicheck has let a productive Brady go.
Packers drafted a heir apparent.

Stafford has been hit a ton and two years as an older player of significant injuries yet lions are developing chase Daniels and blough.

The NFC East is laughed at because of how bad the division is, and we just needed a miracle finish to beat the worst team in that division. Let that sink in.

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I remember when lions fans talked about how easy it was for AFC south teams
Before lions went 1-3

IF we choose to move on from the best QB The Detroit Lions have known, we better make DAMN sure the next QB can follow suit AND do noticeably better than John Matthew Stafford ever did. IF you fail to place a QB here that does not do that, then you look like dumbasses.

The next QB has a long road to tread before equaling the numbers where Stafford stops AND has to do more yet.

Would you like prefer to win Super Bowls or have Matt Stafford ?

As a fan
Whst if staffird has just been good enough to save jobs of head coaches who never were good enough
Keeping lions stuck ?

Rather than bottoming out
And then getting a Pete Carrol
Who becomes the best coach in lions history
Which then follows a bunch of great teams
Even if it takes tome to find a AB better

Staffird conceiveably saved Schwartz who hadn’t been hired again. Saved Caldwell. And might save Patricia

Yet has never win a playoff game.

Lions have lost their asses LONG before we ever had Matt Stafford, the problem is, NOTHING was changed or done WHEN Stafford got here. there was the same old chumps leading the team…NOT experienced, knowledgeable , Game-winning minds in the lead…the result was the same over and over again…NOT because Stafford was the QB, but because “those in charge” could not properly build a defense , a RB unit that produced, a responsible O-line…not that was a “magical chairs” game of players that were changed over and over, THE team went 0-16…because we had blind leadership that had no clue how to win games OR build lines CORRECTLY…sounds familiar :thinking: understand Matt Stafford "looks " off to you because of morons leading the team…FOR THE MOST PART…I am not saying Matt does not make mistakes…every QB does. Stafford did, does , has…and is not “Elite” but my GOD look at what leads this team!!! it affects every player…and our win/lose records…There is a reason we are always firing HC’s GM’s , DC’s…The Lions have almost had 30 Head coaches in team history…we lost many years before Stafford and after due to inept/unqualified Leadership…by a large margin.

OH no …Not the “Stafford has not won a play off game” reasoning … :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

You know…Tom Brady won 3 playoff games & got another Super Bowl ring in 2018 while throwing 2 TD’s , 3 INT’s and fumbling in 12 Quarters of Playoff and Championship play…his Defense surrendered 62 points in those 3 games in total (Which was a lot for them)

Stafford’s 1 playoff game against the Saints in 2011 had him with 4TD’s , he threw 3TD’s, 1 Rushing TD & 2 Ints & 380 yds passing and could not get the one win …never mind the 3 wins and a ring Brady achieved while doing less than Safford did in one game …
The Lions surrendered 45 points in that 1 game .

Winning football games is not an even scenario … and not a Stafford issue …Wins and losses are not QB stats .

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I didn’t say this … I’m speaking theoretically because I agree with you it’s above Matt , Calvin , Slay etc…

I think lions need to luck into their hall of fame quality FO or HC guy kind of like if Mayhew had had better luck during playoff games …since Mayhew wasn’t getting a GM job anywhere else when lions took a chance.
Or if Patricia is that guy …

Until then Calvin was the best receiver in lions history , Matt’s the best QB , Slay the best corner , etc …

There’s really not another QB to compare with Stafford’s career. 3 head coaches. One team.
$200+ million paid
It’s pretty unique

From point of view of ownership
They’re responding to fans attachment to Matt Thst let’s them keep lesser management as part of their formula.
If fans turn on Matt , imo they’ll use same strategy again. I’m probably with another first round pick st the tip of the draft.

@NewYorkLion I’m not using Thst as a reason on how good Matt is I’m talking about the reality of his career so the point of my post
Is not really different from whst you are saying.

Matt Stafford has been good enough to save jobs but those jobs he saved might not have been in the best interest in the big picture of the franchise because those coaches didn’t win playoff games.

Imo if lions get the hiring right of the management then Stafford could be a piece of it but if he isn’t , at least we’ll have the right management to lead us and we’ll get future great players. Maybe that’s BQ and MP though they’ll stand out as pretty unique in their careers given how it’s started but they still have the job so msybe they keep winning from

Okay I gotcha …

You did bring this up and these are not near examples …
Stafford has not been chewed up and spit out …Stafford’s inured back was not all that significant from a standpoint of …He is breaking down or has lost his skill set …those were bad luck impact injuries .

Montana was 37 when traded , Brady is 43 …Aaron is a full 4 years and 2 months older than Stafford and has a large metal plate holding his collarbone together …they now drafted an Heir … I’m not against developing a future starter at QB …
I LOVED HERBERT…but that is not a develop selection. That is a replace selection at #3 .

If you plan on Stafford being your guy then you don’t think QB until later …much later in the draft .
Daniel’s is a BU , stop gap if needed …Blough same thing . Neither is the future hence you are not developing them . …Maybe the GM and Coach here know …if they are here , Stafford is here, that’s their guy . He would be mine if I was GM .

I agree there’s no clear comparison. It’s pretty unique.

Ok I guess Stafford is the only hope for lions s to build a winner 🤷

My point is it really doesn’t make That much difference , as we’ve actually experienced no matter what one thins , that Stafford can’t carry team that much farther than the coaching staff or FO.

My hypothetical question -would you prefer Matt Staffiord or Super Bowls if you could choose one for the lions?

Also while uniquely lions , I’m speaking to the uniqueness of Matt’s career. Fir being so good , name another QB who has had it similar ? Three head coaches , one team. Ten years. No playoff success. $200+ million …

I can’t exactly say where lions miss boat from my seat.

Some could argue , if Stafford was a team player , and being paid so much on his rookie contract while missing so much of first two seasons , he could’ve taken a home team discount on the second contract to try and help secure money for Suh and Calvin. Wasn’t that the Brady new England way ?

At times of signing Stafford has managed to sign 2 or 3 of biggest contracts ever and with a cap and lousy team management , thsts made it a little harder.

I like Stafford too. I’m fine building with him. I think he’s good enough to win. I thought that about Calvin and Slay too.

Stafford is the last player drafted where you had to pay him more than a vet. Once he’s gone, getting a highly rated rookie, on a rookie contract will do wonders for team building. Stafford, CJ and Suh killed team building, for a bad organization like the Lions.

Change will come soon.

Bradford/Suh/McCoy were in 2010.

We have 3 division titles in 60 years. As challenging as the cap is, the team has bigger challenges breaking free of their black hole of suck.

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It’s on the defense and defensive schemes our HC brought in. I know it’s a team game, but our offense was facing the #1 pass defense in the NFL and a Dline with Young/Sweat/Allen and Payne. Our defense was facing a guy who struggles to throw the ball 20 yards and he lit them up for a career day when he’s at the very end of his NFL career. Our offense had to come back TWICE at the end of the game to win. They did. SMH. This didn’t start this year. This started against a rookie Sam Darnold on a Monday Night.

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