Caldwell > Patricia

I think MP like Schwartz is a good X and O guy but he’s not HC material and wasn’t ready to be a HC.

Caldwell was a far better HC if you ask me. BQ has to face reality here. MP is a Downgrade and 9-7 wasn’t good enough. How can he tolerate such failure?

Personally I think the Fords should whipe the slate clean and start all over with fresh eyes. Normally I’m not one to think that way but I’m just not feeling the love anyone.


Caldwell’s loyalties to his coaching staff was his undoing. Time will tell if Patricia has similar shortcomings. Everyone in the country knew Lombardi was a dud, and yet he stuck with him and potentially cost us our best opportunity since the early 90s. Caldwell was a good guy, but just doesn’t have all the necessary tools to be a great head coach. He had his time though, and didn’t get us where we needed to be. Patricia may end up meeting the same fate. But I’m still in a holding pattern and not ready to give up. I still believe in what we’re trying to do and hope that we can achieve it.


I agree on Caldwells loyalty towards his staff was unwavering. Ron Prince was far over his head and needed replacing. I firmly believe he was the main reason our run game sucked so bad. I didn’t have an issue moving in from Caldwell at all. But … MP has shown to be a downgrade and in my opinion we shouldn’t accept that. He’s failing as a HC and seems over his head if you ask me.

I just feel we’re closer then people might think. Our shortcoming right now to me are on the edge and at MLB. If we address those two positions and stay even relatively healthy we’re a much better team. You have a few other positions that could be upgraded as well, but I don’t think they’re as pressing.


I feel just the opposite. I think we lack difference makers and there’s a good chance Slay won’t be back. Snacks can’t stay healthy either. The top level talent on this team has been declining under BQ. He’s done a good job on depth but not so great on finding super stars.


We give the opposing QBs way too much time in the pocket. You could have a secondary full of hall of famers and they’re still going to get torched if a QB is able to takes a few steps back chug a six pack, do a hand stand and go through his progressions a half dozen times without breaking a sweat. I think the defense does a 180 if we have people consistently getting into the back field.


Caldwell in his 40th season coaching, his 3rd stint as a HC (2nd in the NFL) was better than a lot of coaches out there and certainly was better than Patricia in Year 1 and Year 2 of his 1st stint.

I disagree that it’s time to move on and still think that Patricia is worth hanging onto to.

Another important distinction between the two is:
Mayhew > Quinn


I liked Schwartz here. He turned around a dumpster fire pretty quickly. But he lost the locker room when he would punish some but not his favorites.

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Schwartz did the impossible. He took an 0-16 team and had it with double digit wins and a playoff appearance in his 3rd season. That’s incredible, particularly when you consider talent wise the team was starting from scratch after Rod and Matt gutted the team. I honestly think that if Schwartz ever becomes a HC again he’ll have his team competing for a Super Bowl.

Overall I don’t think its fair to compare Schwartz to Patricia and call them both “X’s and O’s” guys. Schwartz really didn’t do alot of exotic things when he was here. He was able to tap into something deep within the players guts and get them to play their hearts out for him. He knew who to bring in to help lead the charge as well. The 2011 team was all guts and determination, not talent. I’m not sure Patricia can get that out of the players like Schwartz did.


You’re out of your ever-loving mind.

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Ego of coaches aside - who would risk coming here as a new HC knowing they would only get two yrs and them they could be fired?

Fords will be doing a “knee jerk” move imho if they fire MP now…

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No disrespect but this is absurd.

The 9ers fired not 1 but 2 coaches after #1 year and got the #1 candidate of that cycle.

The Bills who hadn’t made the playoffs in 20 years fired Rex Ryan after 2 years and got Sean McDermott

The Titans basically fired a coach who won a playoff game after 2 years and got Mike Vrabel

You are waaay too smart to type what you typed.

I’ve never been convinced Patricia was a even a great DC. He coached offense early on in his career and was a position coach for a while. He’s had exactly 1 coordinator job in is career and that is under Jesus H Belichick. There’s too much of a track record of coaches leaving NE and turning into garbage to think Matt P was some kind of juggernaut the Pats relied on.

Trying to pick up New England’s scraps in the hopes of being their clone, isn’t smart.

Van Noy - Flat out said our staff “didn’t know how to use him”. So genius Quinn trades him AND a 7th round pick to, you guessed it, New England for a 6th round pick. Probably even a dumber trade than the Diggs trade.

Bob Quinn - Sexy New England water boy. They let him walk. We pay him gobs of money. He sucks. New England doesn’t even remember his name or what exactly he did there.

Patricia - He was Belichick’s pencil holder. He leaves, the defense gets significantly better there and significantly worse here. They didn’t even try to retain him as they know he will come running back, Daniel’s style when he fails.

Flowers - New England didn’t even want to discuss a contract with him. No way they were going to pay him for his mediocre production. We break the bank. He does very little when it mattered, then gets a few sacks against nobodies when the season is lost.

Bottom line, stop making trades with NE, stop signing guys they let walk, stop hiring their coaches. It’s a terrible philosophy.

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It’s a life thing brother! :upside_down_face:

This is why I started with the caveat of ego!!

If a person is willing to risk everything in thier life, there family and all the stress of relocation and taking in such a demanding job as “ the new HC”. I truly feel most are ego driven… they live of success as thier drug and it’s only temporary…

This why I love the hiring of Bevel - he has never been nor up to this point ever wanted to be a HC… he is content and it shows in how long his tenure has been with previous teams.

Also - I feel you are putting the egg first with your examples you use… none of these knee jerk moves by the respective owners and Gma has resulte in the goal - a SB… the jury is still out

I just know If I. As I am now, was a HC… I would be very very hesitatant to take a job with no job security after the first 750 days…

And, the other interjection thru assumption (my bad) is an ego driven coach wouldn’t last long anyways…

Love your honesty though!! :heart::+1:

Part of it is ego. Part of it believing you have a plan for success and then the sense of accomplishment.

As down as we are on our team (and who wouldn’t be?), if you’re serious about your ability and believe you really do have a plan for success, you’re not going to be deterred by the size of the challenge.

You might be deterred by a meddling GM like in DC or even Dallas.
You might be deterred by a team playing in a dome.

If you’re deterred by the last guy who failed, then your plan isn’t good enough and your resolve isn’t strong enough. The job requires leadership and direction. Either the candidate has it or he doesn’t. If he says “Patricia wasn’t given enough time so I don’t want the job”, then good, because he’s not fit for it.

(spoken in his Chris Spielman voice while Seven Nation Army plays in the background)

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Assumption is the GM or owner are hitting the mark in the assessment that they need to go after just two yrs with an injured QB, already in coaching change in the OC and other intangibles that went together to make this season what it is…

I would lean against that owner. If the ownership was that smart to begin with why 50 yr with no SB?!

Leave it be one more yr…

This is a who is the tallest midget discussion.

  • I apologize if I offended any little people - metaphorical context
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that’s kinda what happened to caldwell isn’t it? he was here two years until BQ came in and pretty much was waiting to dump on the side of the road the minute he got his own training wheels on and his buddy MP was ready take the seat?

the question you should be asking:

why would a player worth a damn risk coming here when the lions are once again the absolute laughing stock of the whole league? i think that’s a more damaging situation to worry about.


And from a player’s POV I could see that

I’m looking at our record and Miami who has gutted most of its talent, really doesn’t have a QB yet, and has a rebuilt, young OL, has just as many wins as we do. I firmly believe we have more talent than Miami, ARZ and Washington all who have the same number of wins. To be honest if I look at teams that have 5-6 wins I think we have as much of talent.

We’re far more talented than our record. I believe coaching has cost us at least 3-4 games.

I guess I wonder how BQ can look in the mirror and not realize he made a huge mistake in MP. His team is underperforming and changes need to be made. If BQ doesn’t see that than the Fords should send both BQ and MP packing.