Do you view this with optimism or pessimism?

No point in this other than I thought it was interesting. Well maybe the optimist in me is looking for a silver lining.

For you pessimists …

Since the league went to a 16 game season there have been 34 HC’s who have won less than 10 games in their first two seasons.

Of those 34 HC’s only 3 HC’s went on to win a SB. Yikes! … that doesn’t bode well for MP.

For you optimists…

Those 3 coaches won a total of 6 Superbowls.

Two of those 3 coaches won a SB in their 3rd year as a HC. Those two coaches are Bill Walsh (3 SB’s) and Dick Vermeil (1 SB).

The 3rd coach was Jimmy Johnson who took Dallas to back to back SB’s in year 4 and 5 of his coaching career.

Hey that should get us optimists something to be excited about … right?

So … are you the pessimist who thinks MP will be just another failed HC or do you think that MP is on the verge of greatness and is about to string together multiple SB’s?

Talk about polarizing but it appears we’re getting ready to rebuild or we’re about to win multiple superbowls… lol

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I’m an optimist mostly, but this regime has tested me with their decisions and coaching thus far. I’m getting older but my patience isn’t improving at all lol. This year is make or break regardless of how anyone feels. If we don’t see any form of ROI in “the plan” by year-three then it’s definitely time to call for a change. If not by three, then certainly four if we don’t make the playoffs.

I’m hoping their vision starts to show this upcoming season and I want them to succeed, but with what I’ve seen the past two season I’m growing very concerned. This draft is absolutely critical to the future of this team and regime.

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No idea. I’m an optimist. But yeah…so sure I hope we are headed for greatness but I could def see us losing.

I think with the Lions history all comparisons historically are out the window. This is a team that is an outlier as far as failure goes.

As far as Lions go next season, I look at the offense and I’m confident it will hold it’s own in 2020, and likely be a top ten, possibly top 5 unit. Bevell looks like a great hire. Not worried about that side of the ball if Stafford plays 16 games.

The D? Another story. That’s where this offseason has to be well above average for the Lions to be contenders. I think Paul P being gone and Undlin coming in is a good sign. The latter is an unknown at this point, but can he possibly be worse? Of course, the D is Patricia’s baby, and he’s got to right the ship on defense this year or he’s done. They’ve got to bring in 3 or 4 guys that can help on that side of the ball. You can’t expect much from draft picks, but the #3 if it’s a defensive player should be able to make a nice contribution. If it’s Chase Young, I think it’s almost a given he’s a difference maker. If it’s Okudah he should be an upgrade at CB2 (I’m thinking Slay stays) and then the DBs should be a nice group. So, it’s a matter of a pass rush and an improved LB corps. This is not an impossible ask. And if Quinn/Patricia can’t manage it this year then byebye.

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Is this the Lions we’re talking about? What is pessimism, Alex.

I don’t put a lot of value on the stats regarding the 1st 2 or 3 years. I just don’t believe there’s much to glean there. What do the numbers in reverse say? How many coaches with success in their 1st or 2nd year went on to SB success?

Patricia is a real coach and a smart one at that. I love what we’re trying to do on defense because I do believe that when we get it right and have better overall talent we’ll be more resilient from week to week. We’ll get more out of middling players like Kennard and Tavai, but we just need to get a bit more institutional knowledge developed among the defensive players.

So, I guess I’m optimistic about Patricia as well as the defensive scheme overall, but I’m pessimistic about Quinn and his ability to succeed in free agency and the draft. Stats about the first couple years do not register with me as relevant to anything at all.

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Here is fact not mentioned… just looked it up…

All 3 coaches that ended up winning a SB… did it prior to the FA area. FA as we know it start in 1993.
Go look at you will see these guys did it prior to FA in the old system.

So, basically, if we do win the SB under MP, he will be the first to do it in the FA area!!

Record aside MP hasn’t shown anything to be positive about. Seems like bad decisions are the only ones he makes.

I don’t think that’s entirely true because some decisions take a season or three to show positive results. There may be some surprises that fruit this next season that were planted in year one. shrug

But I’m with you for the most part. The current view of the plan we have as fans does not look pretty and I have my doubts. We’ll see… There have been some bad decisions made thus far that make you scratch your head. Holding out hope there’s some magic going on in the back ground.

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I think you’re missing Kyle Shanahan, year 1: 6-10, year 2: 4-12, year 3= SB win.

I just look at the poor clock management the lack of adjustments, and playing to the players strengths and think he fails there big time. Then when I see the number of position coaches that were fired this year it makes me think he’s not going to surround himself with a good staff.

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Yeah, I’m right there with you on that based on the sample size I’ve seen.

We’re Lions fans so you know the drill. Expect the worst and hope for the best.

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The point is there… but did the Chiefs steal offensive signs and get their SB rings stripped?

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To be brutally honest, I no longer invest time and effort into the product. What has it netted me? For the past few years I’ve viewed it as an avenue for entertainment.

My passion as long evaporated…

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Me too brother. I probably watched 5 games last year and don’t give a shit who they draft.

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Pretty sure he lost.

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I don’t consider getting to play in the SB a loss, not after his 1st 2 years. :innocent:

Here’s my deal. When 9-7 isn’t good enough and then we end up picking 8th overall followed by 3rd overalll…

Well that arrow is most certainly trending down. We know what bottom is…it’s called 0-16.

So how as a Lions fan can I say with a straight face that the Lions will flip the switch with Quintricia and move this franchise into NFL glory…

Nahhh… I believe they need to win…and win consistently before I get my optimism perculating again.

I want Quintria to succeed…not because I like them and think they’re all wonderful n shit. I want them to win so I don’t have to go through another regime change.

Optimism is directly proportional to winning.

Figure out how to win consistently Quintricia and the optimism/support will follow

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I just feel bad for you.

Patricia’s a real smart coach. Lols
I guess not letting it register is the only way u could come up with this. Because if u take what he has done the last 2 season it would register, alot