For all the Caldwell talk this is interesting

I think this is a really balanced attempt to talk about Caldwell and Patricia. It’s not pro Caldwell and it’s not pro Patricia.

Jeremy Reisman (@DetroitOnLion) Tweeted:
I believe this is the quote it derived from.

I don’t remember that New York reporter mentioning caldwell’s 4-23 record against winning teams? Or did he blame that “idiot” Quinn for that as well?

Cracks me up when people reminisce about Caldwell. My how people forget after only a few short years. We were NEVER going to get better under him.


You’re absolutely right.
And that is also where BQ’s seat should have felt pretty darn hot.
He didn’t want to settle for mediocre, or just not good enough. So it’s time to start showing it in my opinion.
Sorry, but you just can’t go from being a wild card/playoff team to hot garbage and not have any ramifications.
I stood by my “playoffs aren’t good enough” expectations because that’s where he set the bar.
Time for him to go now imo.

I was glad we fired Caldwell, and still am. I just can’t get on board with a new coaching staff/FO that doesn’t meet a higher expecation than fringe playoff team.


Well, as the articles suggest we are closer, still average, but closer in competing against the better teams. Personally, I think it’s hard to draft guys that fit one scheme and then get rid of a coach and get guys that fit a completely different scheme. Maybe that’s why BQ got an extension with the MP hire, because the ownership knew that it was going to be a reset of sorts and it was going to take some time to get the players and culture right. To me we are 18 months into this makeover. I didn’t think we were ready to hang with the big boys this year…if we did…if we made the playoffs…that’s all gravy. Think the stakes get raised next year…this team seems like they need to learn how to close games…perhaps that is the final piece to team taking the jump from crap to average to contender…


I think there is a very good argument to made about Caldwell. I didn’t hate him. What sunk him was his obstinate loyalty to Cooter and Ron Prince, IMO.

The other interesting factor here is whether the Fords intervened on behalf of Caldwell. If they did, they set Quinn back a year and possibly wasted a draft for a system that we don’t use now. I know Martha liked Caldwell a lot. I know Quinn like Matty alot so do the math.

After watching our team they just LOOK better to me. I know that sounds weird, but I feel like they have a chance every game even when playing good opponents. Caldwell went into some games overmatched IMO. Patricia needs to start winning though because just looking like you can win isn’t going to cut it.


Great points. I totally get the argument some have had about “jared davis” draft and taking a player like him who clearly doesn’t fit in MP’s system. Why did BQ delay with Caldwell if he really wanted to get MP? Why did he waste a year on players that don’t fit? Because now we are a year behind perhaps…your point makes sense of that.

When we talk about those 9-7 caldwell teams I keep going back to those games with a hurt stafford when we were 9-4…we got killed by the cowboys and it wasn’t even close…and 3 other teams…these last two weeks we have been in the games…fighting…to me that says something about the quality of the team…

if the collapse is less about injuries and more about gm/coaching then I will gladly eat crow next year…


Did you see Ron Prince got fired as coach at Howard U?

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Yeah, it sounded pretty bad. Not surprising!!

Where I sit in all this Caldwell v Patricia is this…with Caldwell whenever we won it just felt “lucky” to me and that it truely could have gone either way.

With Patricia and I think the team is actually good and we have been snake bitten by injuries and bad bounces. We have led in every game this year and realistically could have a significantly better record against “winning” teams.

Don’t get me wrong, Patricia has shit the bed in the Jets games and Cards games…but overall I think we are very close to being truly competitive and not just lucky like I felt with Caldwell.


Maybe I’m crazy but any Caldwell game I thought we had a chance, the game were usually close.

Last year we lost more games by 10+ than any season Stafford started and finished, this year the defense is so bad I expect to lose.

Caldwell wasn’t a great coach and if he fired Lombardi or JBC he would still be here but none of his teams underperformed based on talent.

Go look at the 2017 defense and look at who got hurt and who played.

They finished at 13th overall in the NFL.

For as much everyone is quick to fellate Bevell the offense with Stafford averages damn near the same amount of points as the last year with Caldwell.

We still don’t can’t run the ball and score the same amount of points, its just more exciting so fans don’t the production is the same.


If I had a choice for a former coach to take over again, it would be Schwartz 10 out of 10 times.


I think 1 Avenue that isn’t much thought about is that hopefully one of the other teams that runs the New England defensive system or something similar gets rid of their coach or that system and has a linebacker that we could possibly swing a trade for using Davis as part or all of the other side of the trade. It’s not like he doesn’t have value, but he just does not make plays in this system and part of that is the system and part of it is him.

Maybe he’s still a young buck and needs to slow down, walk down the hill and blank all of the does, instead of sprinting down the hill to blank one of them, so to speak


Nice “Colors” reference.


The Lions always had a chance at the end, hence all those 4th quarter come backs. But I don’t think it’s good for long term success. It certainly didn’t work against really good teams.

The Lions are getting closer though but the NFC North is a really tough division. Bears look like crap now but they still have a lot of good pieces and could be competitive next season. Teams that stay relatively healthy throughout the season normally have success.

I think this is why you see some teams that were 1-15 one season jump to a 12-4 record the next.

In the NFL most games are close.

Having a shot in the end all you can ask is to have a chance.

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You are right, but i think it is important to look at the context and how those games remained close. I always those games as more of a product of stafford and his heroics then it being a sign of us being a quality team. When he was healthy in 2016 every game was close, when he broke his finger we lose to the Giants 17-6 but the offense was dead. We lost to the cowboys 42-21. We lost to the packers 31-24 but that was misleading due to Stafford throwing a td in the final 20 seconds to Boldin. I don’t think we ever felt that we were in that game. We also lost 26-6 in the playoffs to Seattle. I think Stafford masked a lot of the issues…

I’m pretty sure no team in NFL history has ever gone from 1-15 to 12-4

What great quarterback doesn’t mask issues?

I’m not saying Caldwell is a great coach by any stretch of the imagination but I won’t accept Lions fans claiming he was a dumpster fire that underachieved with Super talented rosters.

When people say they won inspite of him I think that’s absurd.

Isn’t that exactly what has happened this season?

Say what you want about the failures of the defense and it’s been glaringly bad but the team has been very competitive in every game even the two without Stafford. I don’t think the Caldwell teams would have been competitive with Driskel at QB.


IDidn’t say he was a dumpster fire of a head coach. I am on record as saying I was a fan of his, but he was 4-23 vs winning teams. Simply responding to the comment that most games under him were competitive and they weren’t…unless stafford was 100% and i
On his A game. This team is more competitive and complete then caldwell’s and they are still needing much improvement. And a lot of people do actually think he underachieved w super bowl contending Manning teams…was along for the ride. Great man, great leader, great qb coach…eh head coach.