For people who believe in the front office and coaching staff. What tangible proof are you using for that believe?

We throw the ball downfield more which is entertaining but we average the same amount of points per game as JBC as Caldwell did in 2017.

We still can’t run the ball.

The defense is measurably bad by every single metric.


We don’t have tangible proof. I’m a bigger believer in Quinn than Patricia personally but the jury is clearly still out on the both of them.


I’ll give you an answer at the end of next year…I don’t think people realize how big a transition this was going to be…I remember early last season people where talking about Patricia and Quinn alluding to this taking a little bit and being annoyed bc many thought we were in “win now mode” after two 9-7 years.


Interesting you posted this; I was just getting ready to post about how I’m NOT ready for QuinnTricia to be fired…

In my 45 years of watching the Lions, I’ve seen too many regimes shuffled out after 3-4 years. Even less.
This is a 56 year-old Ford Ownership Culture, this Month (Nov 1963). They’re NOT selling; and NO Regime’s gonna come in here and change this culture, right away.


Whether we believe or not doesn’t matter. I don’t see any chance either Patricia or Quinn go anywhere this year.

I like some things they’ve done but I’m just at the point of wanting wins. Idc who the coach/gm are

Every coach that has won a Superbowl in the salary cap era had their team turned around in 3 years and 89% or all but 2 did it in their 1st 2 years.

This notion that it should take time is empirically false.

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I think we need another offensive line overhaul who is better for run blocking In the Bevell scheme. Ragnow is the only person who is 100 percent safe. We just don’t have a strong offensive line who is consistently going to make holes overall. They are more built to pass block in my opinion. They have actually done fairly well at pass blocking this year.

We don’t have the line to enforce the line of scrimmage and be the run first team that we want to be. We don’t have the defensive line stopping the run like we want to be. I feel like the identity we want as a team isn’t there right now.

The defensive line has talent but they have been so beat up in the first half of the season. I never expected to lose at the line of scrimmage on the defensive side. Nobody is consistently winning in the pass rush and no one is making plays consistently in the run game.

Flowers coming off shoulder surgery (which has to be difficult), Hand hurt since week 1, Daniels being a non-factor, Snacks dealing with a groin (which is extremely difficult to deal with at his age and position). I feel like the injuries at the defensive line is costing us our season.

Could we make a run? I feel like we are talented enough to do so. Stafford is good enough to do so. But not being able to stop the run, rush the passer or run the ball doesn’t have me thinking we could compete with the elite teams of the NFC anyway.

I do like Patricia and Quinn. I think they have the right mentality and have done a good job trying to fix the culture here. But Parricia’s defense is regressing instead of progressing right now and that is a HUGE cause for concern.

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I’m not a fan of BQ at all. I think he drafts ok, his free agent signing s are ok. You know what ok gets you? 6 to 9 wins. That will not cut it for most of us.

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I respect that - however, this is the FORD-OWNED LIONS.
Again: there’s a CULTURE here, that is uniquely BAD - and HAS been, for DECADES.

It’s gonna take ANY Regime TIME.

Hasn’t that been proven over these 56 years??

There have been franchises just as inept as the Lions until they weren’t and when it changed the person that changed it made the change happen right away.


I seriously do wonder what ppl would be talking like if we didn’t have 2 games taken from us by the refs.

With those 2 games, we would be leading the division by a 1/2 game, @ 5-2-1. That won’t matter at all to some, but I dont see it as a lost cause, the way most do.

We aren’t supposed to win the SB, this year. We are supposed to be a playoff contender, and we would be, if not for the packer and KC losses that the officials handed us.

Our D confuses me, mostly because we were top 10, just last year…with worse players. I think the DL being injured matters more than most others do.

The truth always reveals itself, and we most definitely will find out what we have here. I still believe Patrica and Bevell can build us a legit contender.


If the Lions were 5-2-1 with the 31st ranked defense and no running game I’d be predicting a 2013 Jim Schwartz like collapse.

I don’t care what your record is that’s not a sustainable way to win.

I don’t think Patricia “gets to” put in a lot of input HERE as a 2 year old HC. In 2018, he had never BEEN a HC before until that season and he had to learn on the fly…then. THIS season it’s like he’s got to listen to Quinn, Bevell, Pasquali and other talking heads about THEIR Ideas and opinions and takes and interject a few words and opinions “here and there” all the damn time. It’s not like he’s been HC for YEARS and has tons of experience plus he has responsibilities to the players, Practices, Meetings, MP’s own injuries and personal life , Media Appointments where he steps in the limelight and puts forth a few short comments before he returns to is daily responsibilities again. I don’t think he has Sole control or say what will go on with the Defense…with Pasquali wanting to be both heard and a figurehead in it.

I think Quinn has some heavy hours of watching film and scouting players and new prospects, making trades, doing contracts and that BUT wants to get quite involved in discussions between Bevell, Patricia , Pasq , some of the players and o-line OLC’s and that…and it’s too many cooks in the kitchen per se. I think they are all yakking during games and there is a lot of mouths running on what to do and when to do it. Patricia doesn’t strike me as a very vocal/talkative guy not all the time and probably only talks when he see’s hears something quite wrong or unclear.

And IMO the defensive foundational pieces are in question so the rest of the defense is as well. the O-line isn’t “much” different, their ok, and serviceable yet certain players should be switched around so they play based on their strong suits OR replaced & the line added to and bettered.

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At some point the tangible proof is wins and losses. That point is coming soon.

As a TEAM, Quintricia is on year 2. My gut tells me this is what Quinn always wanted. Year 2 looks better than year 1 did. So that’s progress. I think. But I’m not sure its happening fast enough. There is something to be said that next year is the target year for a deep run.

We’re running out of time on Stafford. I don’t think we can go through an entire coaching/front office change with Stafford. So I hope they get it together.

If the refs hadn’t kept all of those drives alive, and kept our O off the field in the process, would we be the 31st ranked defense?
If injuries to Slay, Davis, Harrison, Daniels, Hand, Bryant, A’Shawn hadn’t happened, would they be 31st?


Which ones are you talking about? When Pete Carrol was hired by the Seahawks they were 3 years removed from their last Divison Championship. NE was four years removed from it’s last division championship. The Eagles were 3 years removed when Pederson was hired. Mike McCarthy … 2 years removed. The Broncos won the division the year prior to hiring Kubiak. The Ravens were two years removed from their last division championship.

We’re almost 30 years removed. The turnaround situation is in no way comparable and yet you seem to be suggesting the right guy would snap his fingers and we’d suddenly be unstoppable and that simply isn’t the case.

The three most comparable scenarios of super bowl winners in terms of the type of futility the franchises were coming out
of would be: Mike Holmgreen in GB, Jimmy Johnson in Dallas and Dick Vermeil. They each had some elements of extreme good fortune (God telling Reggie White to sign with GB and Atlanta forking over Favre, the Hershell Walker fleece job, Finding a grocery bagger that would become perhaps the most accurate passer in NFL history,) and despite the good fortune they still needed year four, year four and year three before taking the division.

I’m very skeptical that Patricia is the guy but you are promoting this false narrative that you can tell if a turnaround will happen by year 2. I will give you that by year three you better be seeing serious signs if it’s ever going to happen, but when it comes to turnaround jobs as big as the one here two years is simply not a conclusive sample size.


Nice post, brother!

I think BQ and MP are the right guys; however, I think we have some issues with the coordinators.

O Coord, safe
QB coach, safe
WR coach, safe
RB coach, not safe
Oline coach, not safe
D Coord, not safe
Dline coach, not safe
LB coach, safe
DB coach, safe
ST Coord, not safe

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Really? I’m not yet sure that they aren’t but MP in particular has me concerned. We have to stop playing so damn sloppy.

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Division titles being a criterion for success is just stupid to me.

The Lions went 11-5, 7-9, 9-7, 9-7 before Matt Patricia showed up.

That is not a total rebuild in anyway shape or form.

Its also laughable to state that Pete Carroll took over a roster that had just won the division when a whopping 2 out of 22 starters was left from 2007.

Pete and the GM literally broke a record for roster transactions their 1st 2 years.