George Floyd Redux

There have been no shortage of noteworthy incidents and trends since the last thread, including Joique Bell addressing Detroiters on Belle Isle. That rally was attended by Matt Patricia, incidentally.

But here’s something very interesting, one that could send shockwaves through police forces around the world. Can it work?

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I read this earlier. Comical. Zero chance that it would work.

Are these the same people that went around blowing up their own city? What happens when you get robbed, raped, stalked? Some of these anti-police people are crazy, and think nothing through. Probably the same ones that think 1 Cop’s actions speak to every Cop in the world.

I do agree that there needs to be better training, and constant retraining, as there are some bad apples out there. But getting rid of Police all together is dumb

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Sounds like a plan. I mean, what could go wrong? :thinking:

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Not going to happen
Just elected “leaders” making up stuff and throwing it to the press
That way they get to put their outrage in display!
Political opportunists in action

The solution seems simple to me
REAL Federal mandates on Police SOP designed to eliminate bad cops
Subject to 3rd party audit
Police units that fail to comply — Police Chief termination

If cannot mandate federally, then arrive at SOPs in consultation with state and/or cop organizations. Make them have teeth. Publish as guidelines and report who has signed up for those guidelines. Let people and press pressure cop organizations to follow the guidelines.

This should be easy
If they don’t go that route, they don’t want to solve the problem
And it goes back to politicians talking BS to show “they care”

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I don’t think they will go through with it, but talk about “defunding” police is going on not only in America but in other countries as well. It will be interesting to see if they at least come up with a quasi-police security presence to operate alongside what remains of their police force.

Police have become more and more militarized since 9/11 and they’ve taken advantage in blowing up their budgets and have lost touch with community policing no matter how much lip service they pay to it.

I do think police budgets are going to be under a lot of pressure in many places. And if the drug war is cancelled, the need for police becomes far less obvious. I would think that should be the first step, before disbanding police forces. Take part of their budget and pump it into community health, addiction treatment etc.

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I think the real question is, “what could go right?”
But then, I’m stupid, so…

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Here’s my question: is there another way to get rid of the police union in Minneapolis? It ain’t the only factor in their problems with bad cops, but it’s a start. The police union would surely go to court and sue the city, so that right there is the 1st obstacle: can they legally disband the police dept and the associated police union?

When I was active duty USAF, they contracted out a lot of support jobs that used to be uniform military or civil service, both of which are very expensive for the benefits. Medical, dental, retirement, those things cost more than the salary you’re paying the person. I spent the last 15 of my working years as a Lockheed Martin contractor working for the USAF, doing the same damn thing I did when I wore the uniform. But the costs was dramatically lower for a contractor than for an active duty guy or GS person. Could be the same deal for Minneapolis: automate, computerize, and stream line the entire public safety function.

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I hate and fear the idea of a privatized police force. It would probably look a lot like the US prison system. There’s a serious problem with making this stuff a for profit enterprise. Defunding sounds like a horrible idea to me, but I’m no expert. Why do they need to skip past reform and go straight to blowing the whole thing up? I feel like not that much thought has been put into this, but let them, even if it bombs horribly the rest of the country will have something to learn from I guess.

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My libertarian friends are all over this and want the entire government apparatus privatized. I don’t think that’s what the liberal politicians have in mind, however.

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Very interested to see this happen and happen in several more large cities. I will not visit those cities but wouldn’t have even with funded police there.

Maybe let the citizens that reside in the cities vote on it instead of the city council. Especially since this wasn’t a topic when city council members were elected.

For sure can do a better job of policing the police. My solution goes the opposite way, though. Let’s make it harder to become a cop, and let’s pay them more. Find creative ways to make it worth your while to be a police officer. Give these dudes babysitter wages and expect a fantastic product is insane. Same with school teachers. Wanna fix the schools? Pay the teachers, Holmes!

There are many things they could do - instead of the ultra expensive cars, they could have used cars that are paid off, have a mechanic on duty. Give 'em the bullet proof glass without the 200k in technology they have (maybe slightly exaggerated). :wink:

Instead of paying for fancy stuff, let’s put the money into the salary of the cops. Is there a way that the public can buy an apartment complex, and let the cops and teachers live there free? That would be a way to boos their wages - put them into housing that is worth 2k/month, and it only costs the tax payers 200/month for upkeep. Benefit to cop = 24k/year. Cost to tax payer 5k/year. How about providing them with cars and special insurance. Buy a fleet of cars at a discounted rate for a fraction of the price. Give them a bonus if they are willing to drive a certain used car, instead of new - win/win for taxpayers and cops.

Let’s build them up and make them be worth their new wage…find creative ways to take care of those who take care of us. I don’t want to live in a world with no police.

I have been mistreated by cops a few times as well.
They DO need to be held accountable. What’s the solution?

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IMHO, the problem with reforming the current police dept is that damn union. Stating with getting rid of bad cops, it ain’t nearly as hard to get rid of a contractor as it is a union employee. An also, the money you save on personnel benefits can go to some of those wonderful community outreach things and social programs that you know, will rehabilitate the bad guys and convince the kids not to do bad stuff in the 1st place.

But if that union is in place then any reforming will be very difficult IMHO. Replace the desk jockeys with civilian contractors? Ain’t happening without a court fight.

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For everyone acting like Defunding the Police will lead to GTA in real life Camden NJ is the template and example.

The current structure is beyond repair.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department

Homicides are down, more jobs got created and police brutality complaints are down 94%.

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Camden at ~74,000 is a bit different from Minneapolis at 382k+ and the 16th largest metropolitan US city. A lot of the money to create the new Camden county police force had to come from the state of New Jersey, certainly Camden and the surrounding towns didn’t have the money to do that. And that was in 2012, in 2020 with the economic downturn from the coronavirus, I don’t know that they’ll be able to find that much money in Minnesota.

The Minneapolis police union is surely going to oppose the disbanding of the MPD, cuz that means disbanding the union too so they’ll fight that tooth and nail. And if the city isn’t able to get rid of the union then it’s all for naught. You’ll just have the same shit under a new name.

As for the current structure being beyond repair, I’d say that’s not true. It starts with the politicians like the DA. mayor, police chief, AG, and governor doing their freakin’ jobs to remove the bad cops, which they haven’t been doing, mostly due to pressure from that damn police union. There are a number of positive reforms that would mitigate the police misconduct problem, which BTW is not as serious as many would have us believe.

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It’s a great example, get rid of the police unions and add 40% more police to the area just like they did… More cops = less crime… No union = easier to get rid of bad cops.

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Or…
ADD BATMAN!!!

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I agree with you BN, on all of it.

I want to see no police presence or largely defunded is so these big city residents get what they want, or what they think they want. Once they have it they may realize they do not want it anymore and have a change in heart and move away from the city to gated/policed neighborhoods.

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Let’s dispel some myths.

#1 Cops are poorly paid. Bullllllll shiiiiiiiiit. Cops make fantastic money for having an associates degree (if that) and no demonstrable skills aside from a joke physical and an even more hilarious psych screen. Hire on at 20 when you can pass the physical in your sleep and retire at 40 with a fat pension after padding your base by directing traffic at construction sites. It’s a cushy ducking gig.

#2 Policing is dangerous. It’s not. Doesn’t sniff the top ten most dangerous jobs in the country. If you take out self inflicted injuries and non pursuit traffic accidents the job is freaking safe as houses.

#3 police deal with people at their worst day in and day out. Sure, but so do lots of folks. Nurses, social workers, teachers, EMTs, yet somehow these people perform these jobs without killing anyone and without military gear.

Defund the police does not mean there will be no law enforcement, but it does mean that the whole system needs to be re-evaluated so that it gets back to protecting and serving.

If you take away traffic management and petty drug enforcement, most cops do very little that couldn’t be better done by someone else.

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I think we finally agree.

The Unions make it damn near impossible to hold bad cops accountable and the incestuous relationship between the mayors and city councils setting their budgets AND also receiving massive donations from the union from those budgets.

P

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Hey now, let’s not let prosecutors off the hook! If you depend on cops to get you cases that help you rack up easy Ws, you are very unlikely to prosecute those cops

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