Gil Brandt’s interesting point on the CBs

This will be the NFL’s 85th draft. This will be Gil Brandt’s 65th either working for a team—full-time or part-time—or working for the league.

Cooped up in his Dallas home instead of dropping into Pro Days this spring, Brandt, 87, still rates the players. “This is the hardest-to-figure draft,” Brandt said on Friday. “I’ll give you an example. There were 34 cornerbacks at the combine. Only 10 did everything. They were going to do stuff at their Pro Days instead, and then most of their Pro Days got cancelled. So teams are trying to figure out all those guys now. One of the ways you rank the corners is the cone drill. [The three-cone drill measures speed of players while changing directions around three L-shaped orange cones.] If you’re under 7.0 seconds in the cone, that’s a pretty good indicator you’re quick. So now you’re going back to drafting with 50 percent information on a lot of guys, because of no Pro Days and no individual workouts with teams. So your scouting of the games becomes more important.”

3 Likes

Yeah, it’s not just the CB’s but a lot of players don’t do some of the drills at the combine in hopes of doing them at their pro-day …or they want to try improving on their combine times.

I’m sure someone like Derrick Brown, who bombed at the combine, was hoping to improve on some of his drills.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems like I’ve seen before comments like “real scouts don’t pay attention to the combine”…I guess this proves that they do.

2 Likes

I think Brown got his pro-day in, but you’re right in that others in his situation (bombing at the combine) always had their pro-day to make amends.

=>insert andre smith running at pro-day gif

Just for you.

LOL
Hey, it got him drafted like 6th overall.
ROFL

1 Like

I was just using Derrick Brown as an example but you are correct, it does look like Auburn had their Pro Day.
Surprisingly though, it doesn’t look like DB did any of the events.

2020 Auburn Pro Day results

Height Weight Vertical Broad Bench 40 40
Derrick Brown 6-4 3/8 323

The old adage that ‘tape don’t lie’ may come to fruition this draft.

Scouts will be forced to rely on the tape more than ever before.

In 3 years we will probably see this was the most accurate draft ever in terms of people getting drafted where they should have…

3 Likes

Yeah, looks like on-field drills only. None of the timed stuff. If his 3-cone at the combine was not indicative of his agility, he would have wanted to do that at his pro-day, I would think.

Kind of makes me wonder if he’s not willing to put-in the work.
These guys know they are going to the combine. He could have slimmed-down a bit to help with his drills and 40 yard dash.

Here’s part of an article I found:

Derrick Brown, DL, Auburn

To start, I need to be clear about my evaluation of Brown’s combine. I don’t expect his performance in Indianapolis to impact his draft position. He’s likely going inside the top 10 overall, and it’d be a shock if he makes it to the second half of the first round. This warning strictly pertains to the amount of long-term success I believe – and the numbers suggest – he’ll have in the NFL.

Size needs to be factored in with Brown’s workout. Among defensive linemen at the combine over the past two decades, his height (6-feet-5) and weight (324 pounds) placed in the 84th and 94th percentile, respectively.

However, all of his measured, on-field work was historically bad. His 8.22 3-cone placed in the third – yes, third – percentile among defensive tackles. His vertical? 22nd percentile at the position. His broad jump was a respectable but far from super-impressive 66th percentile. His short shuttle time of 4.79 – 18th percentile. Ndamukong Suh – a trendy comparison for the Auburn star – was light years more athletic than Brown when he tested at the combine in 2010.

Height/Weight 40 Vertical Broad Three Cone Short Shuttle
Ndamukong Suh 6-4/307 5.03 35.5" 105" N/A 4.44
Derrick Brown 6-5/326 5.16 27" 108" 8.22 4.79

And Brown’s workout basically matches the film. While young – still not 22 – Brown wins with sheer force through blocks and tremendous block-shedding laterally to go along with stellar tackling reliability. He’s the best run defender in the class, bar none. But, while that makes for fun highlights, it’s simply not as valuable in the NFL in 2020 as it was even a decade ago.

He took a step forward using his hands when attacking upfield in 2019, yet outside of a bull rush and a very rare swim, one simply can’t say Brown is a refined hand-work master on pass plays. And, now, projecting him to win through a gap simply with his burst and athletic gifts at the NFL level might be a fool’s errand.

What that leaves is a large, intimidating defensive tackle with easy-to-see strength and an advancing yet not loaded arsenal of pass-rushing moves with well below-average athleticism for the position. For as disruptive as Brown was during his illustrious career at Auburn, the odds are now firmly against him becoming a star (pass-rusher) in the NFL.

2 Likes

Wow, that pretty well matches what we’ve seeing/saying, huh? I see a potential Pat Williams there and would even connect him with either Seattle or Indy for their Tampa-2 influenced defenses. The ole cocknose that Marinelli used to talk about. Not just a guy lining up to tie up a Center and Guard, but someone good enough to hurt you if you leave him alone long enough. Indy just signed Buckner to be their Undertackle… Brown would be a good addition for them at 13 to play along side him, keeping Buckner iso’d on a Guard.

SNAGS … I swear i run 1 (run rich run ) for charity and u get video of it. Lol

1 Like

7.57 by my stopwatch.

His film does not show “below average athleticism” at all. He’s not going to look like a 260lb DE, but the redirection and flexibility for a man his size, definitely shows when he is chasing plays and redirecting out of his initial rush. This is putting too much emphasis on a 3 cone combine drill. I will say though that Suh’s freaking 35.5" Vert was insane and screams explosiveness. Brown has two years of elite film against SEC olinemen ie the cream of the crop, and many of the guys he faced the past two years on Saturday ARE the guys he will be going against on Sundays.

4 Likes

Drafting one of those other CB this year scares me. You remember how BQ said he basically ignored the numbers and relied heavily on tape for Teez Tabor?

BQ could have picked KG in the 2nd round and Teez in the 3rd and maybe no one would have cared as much. Kenny picked at 53 and Teez picked at 96 would have looked better a few years later.

Amani O was taken in the 5th round and had better/faster numbers across the board so who really trusts BQ to evaluate CB’s unless they fall into his lap like Amani did?

He missed on Tabor. It happens. He also released him, which shows to me that he is willing to only ride his ego so far, then admits he was wrong and dumps them (though one of the two teams playing in this years SB gave him a roster spot). I prefer that with misses that all GM’s have. But if you are going to say well Amani “fell into his lap,” I think that’s sort of lame. 31 other GM’s didn’t take him when they could have. So let’s just tip the freaking hat to Quinn on the Golladay’s, Glasgow’s and Amani O’s, and criticize the Tabors. Just call balls and strikes eh? It isn’t “an obvious call” which takes no skill when he grabs a player that exceeds his draft position. It’s just a good pick and that’s that.

Your take isn’t lost on me and has plenty of merit but my point was using both of these players to demonstrate that BQ should be drafting a player that has given us their measurables instead of just tape.

That is how most people predicted Teez’s career path while Amani has a much better chance of overperforming his draft slot based on limited snaps in his rookie year. BQ can’t be relied upon to make wise decisions when ignoring red flags in measurables and relying more on tape when talking about all these CB prospects that didn’t work out this year at the combine.

And in my estimation, Amani did fall to the Lions and by extention fall into their laps as he was sticking out like a sore thumb on their board by the time their pick came around. I’m pretty sure that post-draft chatter was that it happened exactly that way and wasn’t someone they targeted earlier nor moved up to grab to stop their fall. Not arguing semantics but that is what I meant.

I got you. It is going to be a challenge for sure for a ton of players who wanted to wait for their pro day and may never get that chance. Tabor running a 4.7 was indeed a big red flag. Maybe Kinlaw works out at the USC pro day as planned, maybe not. I’m generally much more of a tape guy than a workout guy. There are several players that look like Tarzan on tape then Jane made them look slow. Brown is one where he has that 3 cone red flag that Quinn is usually pretty consistent on. We’ll see how it goes. I can see CB specifically being a bit of a concern, because BQ said he studied Tabor than any other player ever and completely whiffed. So, just trade down to 5 for their 18 and come out of the first 3 rounds with:

1a Okudah CB - Fills CB2
1b Chaisson JACK LB - Explosive pass rusher, Collins replaces Jones at WILL
2 Blacklock 3t DT - Explosive pass rusher what we wanted to get with Daniels.
3a Ruiz RG - Moves to RG for us and is well suited to our inside zone scheme.
3b CEH RB - All depends on when the run on RBs start. Also like Moss in this area.

We could still use an upgrade from Okwara, but we do have Bryant as well coming back. I love Derrick Tuzka a small school guy who we could get after the above happens and we would have a very kick but rotation on the Dline. Then you have Hand coming back as well, and we’d look pretty good. Our LB corp goes from Jones/JD/Kennard, to Collins/Ragland/Chaisson. Holy crap!! Add in Tavai as the other ILB in a heavy 3-4 set, and the current starters in JD and Jones improve our depth. Still have JRM as a cover backer. We can add significantly to our pass rush, fix RG, get an impact RB with juice and draft Okudah. We just need a trade down to get it started.

I don’t think either of your 3rd rounders are going to be there.

I would be a lights out draft if possible

The thing with Tabor, he was drafted for Teryl Austin and his cover 2. A system that relies on quickness more than 40 speed.

He is an absolute dud in press man coverage, which we run 80% of the time.

Makes since to dump him since he no longer fits what we do. However he played 1 season in that type of system before Austin was booted.