OL—Wagner the weak link

Lions Guy

Take this as you will.
6th 10th 1st 7th 23rd
This is where PFF ranks our lineman in their individual positions (500 snaps to qualify).

It’s what I’ve been saying for weeks. They are all messing up at inopportune times, but Wagner does it more often. Where my own observations don’t mesh with that report is at the Guard spot, where I see Glasgow 2nd to Wagner in blowing assignments. But I’m not attempting to grade, either. I’m just looking at who is causing plays to break down.

Nobody caused plays to break down more than Ty Johnson, in my opinion.

I think they benched Wagner in the 2nd half against the Vikings… Crosby was playing RT. Unless there was an injury I don’t know about.

Wagners play has been dismal. He doesn’t deserve the contract he has and he struggles with speed rushers. Well he struggles with bull rushers too. Sometimes DE’s just run right through him. Truth is he struggles to pick up Or even slow down the blitz. He’s a liability in the pass game for sure.

Dahl often fails to pick up delayed blitzes. I like his athleticism but he gets beat by LBers blitzing way too often. Also he does this way to often.


As much as we need an impact player on defense don’t be surprised if Quinn takes a OT in rd 1…

If anything his track record says he probably will!

Watching this year’s tape, I do not see gaffs like that from Dahl. I see them from Glasgow more, but I need to watch more before I pound the table too hard.

No matter the case, we can agree that Wagner was a bad signing like James was this year. He’s someone we can move on from after this year, so that’s my #1 target. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen the kind of play from Crosby on the right side that instills confidence. When he was brought in as LT, he looked much better than at RT. I’ll review him again in the coming weeks. It would be nice to be able to replace Wagner with a past 5th round pick, but if it’s through free agency, that’d be ok, too, just as long as it’s not paying starter money to somebody else’s backup. Enough with the Millen/Marinelli tactics already.

Wagner has always been my biggest of BQ’s…I was impressed and excited when we got the number one tackle in FA…and never thought he looked like a number one tackle…I’ve never been a fan.

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I’ve seen Dahl make far too many fails this year. GG has had his fair share too. But I still like Dahl and GG. It makes me wonder about our coaching with all the failed Blitz pick ups.

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I’m right there with you. Replacing Dahl or GG is optional, IMO, but replacing the RT is essential.

You do have to wonder about coaching for sure, but we seem to have improved quite a bit from where we were in 2017.


I think Wagner is going to be cut after the season. I don’t think there is any way to justify keeping him. Definitely a bad signing by Quinn.


I think it’s flagrantly obvious that Wagner is the weak link. That said, I’m surprised that the other guys are ranked as high as they are. I wonder exactly how much of that has to do with Bevell?


I agree. With the middle and left side of the line rated that well, you would think CJ Anderson would have rushed for 2000 yards in September. Something doesn’t add up when Kerryon could barely get 3 yards per carry behind them.

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It has to do with having the proper anchor in the middle, IMO.

It’s the ground given up by past Centers, from Railoa forward. Dom’s best days were here in the end when he mysteriously bulked up. There is a VERY noticeable difference in the amount of ground given up by, say, Glasgow at Center versus Ragnow at Center. Ragnow is able to hold his ground without giving any up. We haven’t seen that in our other Centers.

I wasn’t aware that the bulked up, but that would explain a lot, if he was roiding. When we put Rob Simms between Dom and Backus, they both improved a ton. A weak link on an OL impacts everyone, and also impacts what you can do with your blocking schemes. If someone can handle their guy 1-on-1, you don’ t have to double, chip, etc. If you trust the guy next to you, your attention naturally goes eleswhere, and you don’t worry about having to compensate for the guy to your left/right.

I agree that we can upgrade the interior of the line, as well.

In 2014 Rob Sims was one of the weak links, interestingly enough

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I would argue that Davis is the most lost LB I have seen in my life. He is a run and chase LB who becomes frozen the minute you ask him to think.


That is interesting. Even as the weak link, how big of an upgrade do you think he was over the guy he replaced (can’t remember his name - young dude, strong, but sloth like speed and agility)

I’m not sure who you are referring to. Rob Sims in 2014 was a big downgrade from Rob Sims of 2013 and prior. It was weird going back and seeing how hard he fell off. On most snaps you had the center kind of doing his thing (hit and miss), and then you had Reiff and Warford doing a good job holding their guys off. Then you’d have Rob getting beat on one side of the line, and then the revolving turnstiles we had at RT getting beat on the other side. Then whenever Warford would go out out for a series or more, the entire right hand side of the line would collapse.

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If the Lions use the post-June 1 designation, they save $6.1 Million under the cap for both 2020 and 2021.

If they don’t, then they get $3.4M in relief for 2020 and his $9M salary is off the books in 2021.

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Rob Sims is interesting in that he was a great blocker in the screen game, but not great at anything else.

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