Talent Issue or Coaching Issue

Which is the bigger problem?

The thing is if we’re being honest with ourselves, our talent level is last in the division. Isn’t it?

What about coaching? Anybody here going to say we have the best coach in the division? Top two? Maybe top 3?

Little bit of both. Plus a beat up team


It is both. You have a coaching staff working toward an ideal that the players don’t quite fit. That’s where the friction enters from guys like Slay and Diggs. They think that the players could be put in a better position to win. Meanwhile the coaches will stick to their plan, expecting the players to learn what they consider fundamental to their system.

I would also say that the coaches put a little too much emphasis on preventing the big play and not enough on pressure. (At the same time, there’s not much here in the way of pass-rushers to begin with.)

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Our coach himself is a talent issue


Just a few weeks ago posters were claiming the Lions had the talent to compete with San Francisco and New England as the best team in the NFL.
Posters were claiming the Lions would handle everyone on the remaining schedule quite easily and get a bye.

How can a few weeks later the narrative now turns the talent is an issue and the Lions will be drafting top 5?

We have a coaching issue. Only in 2014 did Teryl Austin have this much talent, and he did better with it.

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A good starting point (for comparison sake) is the trench players. 2014 wins that comparison. Mathis/Slay/Diggs is better than Slay/Melvin/Coleman, solely because Melvin is in over his head at #2.

This team is better than the 2014 team at S. We had Quin and Ihedigbo. We also had IAQ.

I don’t know where I fall on linebackers. We had Levy in his prime and Whitehead took over for Tully. I think we also had Durant. All 3 belonged in the league, but weren’t the strength of that defense by any stretch. Since none of our LB’s (literally not one of them) are good in coverage, you have to give the nod to 2014. Durant and Levy could cover. Whitehead filled in nicely cleaning up what the DL funneled in. Tavai>Whitehead.

Yeah, 2014 was a much better collection of talent.

I’m looking at much of our defense this year like Ihedigbo. They all have something you love about them, but there’s a weakness to their game that troubles us. For Digs, we loved his play in the box, but he was a liability in coverage. Close to being a really good player, but…

I figured my post would be read differently than I meant it. Sorry about that, I should have switched up the wording.

What I was saying was the only time Austin had this much talent was the 2014 team. In 2015, 2016 and 2017 he didn’t have this much talent, and he got better results out of it. he would have loved to have some of these players in 2015-2017. The cupboard was pretty bare back then.

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Coaching. I always said the team is only as good as the people Leading it. Ours has always been a damn circus ! I think Paul P , Quinn, Patricia , and Bevell are always bickering about how to do things especially on defense…I lean MORE that Paul P thinks he’s far better than he (is) and he’s not wanting Patricia screwing with HIS Defense, I get the notion that Paul told Matt P “I run this defense and your not changing it.” type thing…so "largely, Patricia has more or less been leaving it alone for the most part… I could be wrong.

We have the worst staff, worst GM, worst owner and worst roster in the division. Just look at the Bears. I would take their roster in a heartbeat and try to add a high end QB to it. They have 2 better RBs than anything er have. Their entire defense is better. We have like 9 holes to fill, they have 2 or 3. The Pack and Vikings are way ahead of us. If the Bears just added like Andy Dalton to their team, we are guaranteed to be in last place for several more years.

I initially formulated my response having read your post incorrectly. Then re-read your post and softened a few of my takes. :slight_smile:

I still fall on the Ihedigbo comparison, especially in the front-7. We have a collection of players where there are as many caveats to their game as there are strengths. I do believe a Schwartz could get more out of this group than the P’s are, though. I really have no idea why Patricia isn’t better able to adjust to the available talent on his roster, even through Pasqualoni.

It’s coaching. It’s talent/execution. It’s management. It’s calls and non-calls. It’s injuries. It’s scheduling. It’s a whole bunch of reasons/excuses. And it’s also the fine line between winning a game and losing one, but for a handful of plays this team might be 6-3 instead of 3-5-1.

We can argue all day long about which factor is greater, but it’s the whole thing really.


So many think its coaching. To those that do, where do you think the roster talent ranks in the NFL North? 1-4?

4th. Quinn has been here 4 years and has brought in exactly 1 borderline difference maker in Kenny G. The roster, coaching staff and record was better before he arrived. Hes been a complete failure. Swapping out yet another coordinator should not be allowed as another scapegoat. HE hired Patricia and if Paul P gets fired that will mean that the guy HE hired to be head coach will have already fired his OC his special teams coordinator AND his DC all in a years time. If you have to replace your entire staff, the you hired the wrong head coach. Strike 10. Quinn blows.

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Talent or coaching? It’s a combination of both.

The Lions defense has been hit hard with injuries this season, especially the D-line. The LB crew is talent-less for the most part ,and has to be restocked.

On offense the coaching has been improved with Bevell, although he doesn’t have the talent at RB to do the things he likes to do. The OL is average at best.

Only Belichick can make that defensive scheme work. There’s a reason why most teams don’t run that system. You need smart, multi positional talent,who can improvise at the drop of a hat.

It’s hard to find those type of players, and even harder to expect them all to play consistent football as a team.

The defense simply has too many holes for teams to exploit. No pass rush is the biggest killer.

I do think part of our pass rush issue is due to our scheme and lbs

When a te is on a lb and gets open quick the qb gets the ball out quick no pass rush will get there

I think besides tavai we do need new lbs. Trade davis use kennard as a 4th lb. Put super glue on jones ass and set him on the bench

The only time rushing 3 works is if you also have a stud OLB edge rusher, or a player like JJ Watt on the team.

I’d have to say coaching on Defense for sure. No way your Defensive genius should be overseeing the worst pass and rush defense in the NFL. But yet… Yes we have had injury issues, but our backups are chosen by the staff as well.

On offense, I really like what Bevell has done, with the exception of the rushing attack which is flat atrocious. Maybe Davidson and Bevell aren’t on the same page when it comes to the blocking schemes. Our Tackles have been really bad at run blocking though.

Backus>Reiff>Decker, but for perspective, how many other teams have had just 3 LT over 20 years?

lol. Three consistently crappy LTs. It’s like being in a toxic relationship, but you made it last!