Trey Flowers impresses vs Dallas


must be a lie. :innocent:

Flowers isn’t getting the praise he deserves around here, has been playing well for awhile now. They really need Mike Daniels to show up, somebody to apply some pressure inside. Snacks and A’Shawn seem to be somewhat less than 100%, and they ain’t exactly known for their pass rush. Be nice if Deshawn Hand was back, but I don’t know when that’ll be. Plus they need pressure from the outside opposite Flowers, Kennard has his moments but he isn’t consistent enough IMHO. Maybe Austin Bryant will help, but he’s a rook and maybe isn’t really NFL-ready yet. If he’s even healthy enough to play. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, in this league you gotta get pressure on the QB, failure is not an option.


I wonder how many sacks he could have gotten if he wasn’t getting held all the damn time?


Part of his appeal is the position flexibility within a “multi” scheme.
That said, when he’s lined up as a 3-4 DE he’s not effective in pressuring the QB at all.
When they go 4-3, especially in an Under formation with Daniels or Robinson at the 3, he has space and only 1 man to beat.

To add to the frustration of him at the 5t spot, the OLB covering him is usually Christian Jones, who provides zero pass-rush threat. But, this is the same OLB that they just re-upped. You put a threat on the outside there and you’ll get the OL guessing. With Christian Jones there, the OL isn’t the least bit distracted.

In all of my complaints about this team and roster, it’s not Flowers I’m taking shots at. It’s the guys playing around him and the manner in which they’re lined up.

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you mean if he wasn’t committing hands to the face…I mean…having hands to the face committed on him?

I tend to look at the roster like I look at all areas of weaknesses and strengths.
QB -strength, not easily replaced or upgraded. Driskell, surprise…
WR -Jones, Golladay and Amendola. I think easiest to replace via draft and free agency if we keep it to replacing one per year. Most cost effective through the draft. Will be area of concern. Talent. Not easy to reset all players but one per year.
RB - KJ is talented the back ups are lackluster. You can pull one anywhere you get a break in the draft, Ty Johnson real proof. Can get a deal in FA. No hurry, but serious investment if right person is available gives you two difference makers.
C - Ragnow not easily replaced, not need at this time
G - Resigning Glasgow, getting another, probably is a must if you want to run the ball. Not my best investment scenario. Guards are a dime a dozen, but good ones, well, look for a Wisconsin, OSU or Michigan guy in a value spot in the draft. A guy people do not want to play against.
OT - Not impressed, but upgrading Decker requires prime investment. Wagner is ok, money for value, too much, Crosby has been a swing tackle, good value. Need for an OT not high but considerable. We’re sitting there at ten we could get value from Andrew Thomas, shame at that point if we have to give up on Decker, but our return has not been great, that wouldn’t help us replace Wagner, either
TE - We re-did the room. If we get a chance to get a receiving type guy, maybe, Logan Thomas could be replaced. Easy if we see value, anywhere after the third round.

DT we have Daniels, we have Harrison, we have Hand as a flex. Hard to see another investment here.
DE -we clearly need a guy opposite Flowers, Okwara and Kennard provide some pass rush. Flowers improving. Premium investment needed. Not easy to find.
LB-our LB’ers are a mess. We cannot stop anyone. Christian Jones. Ouch!
Safety-Walker and Harris, neither is a playmaker. Grant Delpit, might be the best player in the draft. Yes. There is a definite need for a playmaker. They are expensive.
CB- Melvin, Coleman and Slay. Premium investments across the board. If we lose slay, or better yet trade him, Jeffrey Okudah, maybe.

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So, you and I see the talent a bit differently.
No issues with your position on QB, WR, TE or RB.
I differ a bit on the OL. Decker, Dahl and Ragnow should be brought back without any attention given to replacing them. Wagner appears to have the most gaffs along the OL of them all, though they do all commit them. His price and performance do not match. He’s my first target. Glasgow is someone I like and would bring back, but he’s also the interior guy that is most likely to be replaced. He’s 2nd to Wagner in gaffs.

Snacks provides an anchor and filled a major void for us. That’s it, though. He provides no pass-rush. He shouldn’t be contained by a single Guard on passing downs, but he is. This breaks the defense. Daniels cannot be relied upon with his age, price and extended downtime. Hand is a nice piece that I’d like to see take some LDE snaps from Kennard and 5t snaps from Flowers, but he’s also injured. Robinson, like Snacks, is limited in strengths. I see him beat his one-on-one matchups, but he’s often doubled because there is no threat coming from the other DT spot. I’m upgrading 2 of my DT spots this off-season, no matter the price.

Edge is also affected by what’s happening on the inside, as well as LB performance. I need at least 1 more Edge guy. A premier pass-rusher. No expense spared here, either.
I have Kennard, Jones and Tavai to take Inside LB snaps. If they replaced Davis, that’s OK. If it’s Jones and Tavai next year, that’s OK, too.

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Regarding the chart: The other thing I want to look at is TJ Watt. Specifically, what is Pittsburgh doing schematically that prevents teams from doubling him? His win rate should dictate coverage, yet he’s below average in the % of snaps where he’s doubled.

I’d also like to see this chart with interior pass-rush included, then compare alignments of all teams to see who else is as successful as Pittsburgh in scheming their pass-rushers into 1-on-1.

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The dl has been hampered by injury. Austin, Hand, Daniels, Harrison and Flowers have been sidelined or slowed. Incomplete. Robinson is good enough. I don’t see a need anywhere but pass rushing opposite Flowers.

The OL has been less than effective but the offense itself has not suffered too badly. Replaced one by one beginning with Wagner, I hope, Glasgow is solid, but replacing him will be costly, so will retaining him. So, my feeling is Wagner is being paid above replacement, Wiggins is the dime a dozen kind of guy, and Glasgow’s advantages to this point are versatility and toughness. My priorities are as stated. Wagner if possible, Wiggins whenever, Resigning Glasgow is smart. Crosby may not be good enough to start anywhere but he is versatile playing guard and swing tackle.
I can’t see Glasgow as a weakness. Wagner is a starting RT, he may be middle of the road, not a strength or weakness but his pricetag makes him expendable. Wiggins just under starter, in my opinion, and in need of upgrading.

This roster needs play makers, on defense, that means pass rushers and secondary players. It also means our linebackers are not acceptable. Impact players.
On offense, a RB who can take it to the house. Hopefully, Hockenson is that guy at TE. That’s just the way I see it.

Josh Allen ranking high on the chart despite being the 5/6th most double teamed edge player. Ugh. I was heartbreaking to see him slide only to get picked one spot in front of us.

To be honest, I kinda think the Lions were going to take Hockenson over Allen anyway if both were there.

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I was specifically talking about the Cowboys game. Its ridiculous how many times he got held, and its ridiculous how much holding they let Tyron Smith get away with on a week to week basis.

If they put some of the Steelers defensive lineman on the chart you’d probably see a bunch of double teams. Their scheme is based around getting double teamed on the defensive line and freeing up the linebackers to go make plays. But they also mix up who is rushing the passer vs who is going into coverage, so you can’t always bank on TJ rushing the passer. If you look closely at the chart you’ll see Flowers. Then above him on that line you’ll see Ferrell. If you keep going up you’ll see a guy in a black shirt with dreads. That’s Bud Dupree, with the Steelers. So teams are doubling Bud more than they are doubling TJ Watt.

I think you make a very valid point wes, regarding the Defense the steelers run. I watch two games religiously a week: the lions and the steelers. Wife born and raised in the burg. Tj is a beast but the front 7 of the steelers even with Tuit out w a pec tear is head and shoulders above the Lions front 7. Vince Williams had 8 sacks last year from the MLB position. Take the Rams game as an example…the rams knew he was coming and single blocked him a great deal of the game and sometimes would send the rb to chip him…he is so strong that he just overpowers the OL. Sometimes fans and media will say he disappears…but i think that is due to when they in fact focus on him and double him…last year they said he disappeared alot and the kid had 13 sacks. I like Bud Dupree alot, steeler fans seem to be hot and cold on him but I was excited when they drafted him out of Kentucky and I’d be ecstatic if we picked him up in FA next year…